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CopticChris434

Posts: 61

Joined: Dec 18, 2004

Posted: Apr 06, 2005 - 09:43 PM

hello all,

my youger sister told me that in the phillipines people publicly flaggelate themselves and crucify themselves and i did not beleive her until i looked it up they do all these things on easter sunday in teh name of christ what is our church view on events such as these?

i have attached a link with an article about it http://pages.zdnet.com/AsiaBill/id11.html

aghape,
chris

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Agapy
CopticJrictoferoc

Abba pishoi pi Jrictoferoc

Woven&Spun

Posts: 68

Joined: Jan 04, 2005
Location: Marion, TX USA

Posted: Apr 06, 2005 - 09:47 PM

WOW...That is all I can say...A Big Shocked WOW...

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Someone asked Abba Anthony, "What must one do in order to please God?" The old man replied, "Pay attention to what I tell you: whoever you may be, always have God before your eyes; whatever you do, do it according to the testimony of the holy Scriptures; in whatever place you live, do not easily leave it. Keep these three precepts and you will be saved."
· St. Anthony the Great ·

exGreek

Posts: 1381

Joined: Oct 27, 2004
Location: Spring Lake, Michigan

Posted: Apr 06, 2005 - 09:57 PM

Doesn't St. Paul condemn these sort of things in Colossians or something? He says that they do nothing to subdue the body's lusts.......

just an idea (?)

SherryMikhail

Posts: 611

Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Location: St Marks COCathedral Sydeny, NSW, Australia, Southern Hemisphere, Earth, and then God Knows Where..

Posted: Apr 07, 2005 - 06:27 AM

Hello,
yeh i heard about this too, like a few years ago, at skool, n we watched a commentry about some easter thing, and i remember on the video we saw wat was goin on,..... aparently (from my memory) when the people crucify the dude, they do it as professional as possible, i remember in the video that they tied up alot of rope around the guys hands and on his legs and the guy wasnot dressed properly (yet, covered, off cource) and after tieng him up very tightly, they then jammed in the nails in between the 2 bones on his arms and also jamming a long nail through both his feet. the man being crucified, found it very Painful... all this when they put a log at the bottom of his feet so he can actually stand also. i also remember seeing that, they put a thorn on his head, and then 'parade' him on the streets.

yeh my 2 cents....

after all this, I think it IS Wrong.
all ive ever heard about it.. im glad this fact has been raised up!

GBU
everyone pls feel free, to critisize and comment or to comment and critisize on my post.

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Saint Marks Coptic Orthodox Cathedral Sydney, Australia

"Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth " -( Ec 12:1 )-

"At the beginning of every task, call on the name of the Lord your God, and begin it with prayer, that the Lord may prosper you to begin it and complete it. And from this it is evident that a Christian ought not to begin anything that is contrary to the Law of God, but only that which is in agreement with it."

- (Saint Tikhon of Zadonsk) -

Cephas

Posts: 612

Joined: Aug 06, 2004
Location: St. Paul the Anchorite Coptic Orthodox Church, London, Ontario

Posted: Apr 07, 2005 - 08:30 AM

I've also heard of this practice as well. I'm not really sure what the point of it is. Christ went through the scourging and crucifixion so that we wouldn't have to. He was our substitute. I definately don't think this is what Christ meant when He said that we should take up our cross and follow Him. That is why we celebrate the Eucharist every sunday; to commemorate His death and ressurection and we take it further during the actual Pascha as well, with our hymns and Paschal services. I'm not sure if it's some sort of "purification" thing or what, but either way, it really is pointless.

Pray for me.

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Cevac ¨
<ere peniwt Abba Paule pimenrit `nte P=,=c

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
-- Philippians 4:13

"Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!"
-- Mark 9:24

"Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart."
-- Jeremiah 29:12-13

Cephas

Posts: 612

Joined: Aug 06, 2004
Location: St. Paul the Anchorite Coptic Orthodox Church, London, Ontario

Posted: Apr 07, 2005 - 08:37 AM

exGreek wrote:

Doesn't St. Paul condemn these sort of things in Colossians or something? He says that they do nothing to subdue the body's lusts.......

just an idea (?)

I believe this is the verse you were refering to:
These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
-- Colossians 2:23

Pray for me.

mnwlkr1

Posts: 131

Joined: Mar 03, 2005
Location: my troubled mind

Posted: Apr 07, 2005 - 03:42 PM

Very relevant verse, Cephas.

But yeah, I don't think our church would agree with that because it's not something God would accept as an offer to Him. I think he is more concerned with our spiritual well being not with what we do with our bodies.

Pray for me and GOd BLess.

Your bro in Christ,
Andy

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Andy

I have read in Plato and Cicero sayings that are wise and very beautiful; but I have never read in either of them: "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden.'' - St. Augustine

"Stand still and see the salvation of the Lord...the Lord will fight for you and you shall hold your peace" - Ex. 14: 13, 14

"All things are possible to him who believes" - Mk. 9: 23

"Let all that you do be done with LOVE." - 1 Cor. 16: 14

"God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" - Rom. 5: 8

Katreen

Posts: 20

Joined: Feb 24, 2008

Posted: Mar 01, 2008 - 05:50 AM

OMG i have never seen something like this ... WOW

anyways i think its wrong because they are agreeing for people to kill them and thats like them being the murderer

Katreen

Posts: 20

Joined: Feb 24, 2008

Posted: Mar 01, 2008 - 05:50 AM

but i do like the way they are expressing their love WOWW

PeterA

Posts: 117

Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Location: Mississauga, Canada

Posted: Mar 01, 2008 - 12:03 PM

Perhaps they are sincere and genuine about their intentions. there are stories about fathers instructing monks to slap themselves while sleeping during prayers, or other such things. But this this was with moderation and it wasn't the main aspect of the monks spiritual growth.

We have to ask the question which is most important. Is this helping them get closer to God. IF so then by all means continue. But i highly doubt it. Perhaps it serves as just a reminder of his suffering which is fine. But a better way to remind ourselves is by reading the bible daily and experiencing God through prayer and good works.

We tend to give up on those two quickly when we dont see results over night. But God is a god of patience and learning and he wants to see you make him part of you life and not just a quick fix for problems in your life. It was said that St bishoy the perfect would read his bible so much and when once he couldnt understand something in jeremiah, the prophet himself appeared to him explaining it.

The more we persevere in the spirit and with his word the more he reveals to us. But the secret is to persevere even when we feel theres nothing being accomplished.

So self flagulation is perhaps not a "sin", but it may also not be the best method to get to know God or to advertise him to the world. But whatever works for them Smile

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Publican

Posts: 108

Joined: Nov 18, 2005

Posted: Mar 01, 2008 - 01:11 PM

Agape,

While this sounds similar to the practice of St. Shenouda the Archimanidrite (on Good Friday, St. Wissa would crucify St. Shenouda), the administration of such severe asceticism requires an acute discernment and is reserved for the great spiritual fathers.
This type of self-mortification for entertainment and public spectacle is in no way condoned by the Church.

In Christ,
Publican

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"Sit in the presence of the Lord every moment of your life, as you think of him and recollect him in your heart." -- St. Isaac the Syrian

The greater the Knowledge of God, the greater the Love, and the greater the Love for God the greater the Knowledge, the greater the Love, the greater the Knowledge, the greater the Suffering.-- St. Silouan

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