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petertheodore

Posts: 343

Joined: Dec 02, 2003
Location: England

Posted: May 02, 2007 - 03:38 AM

Hi

I wonder if anyone is aware of the text of a statement or comment made by H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy in the winter just passed which said something like..

..that they are sects or cults and will not be saved.

I am trying to find out exactly what he said and if his comments were directed at a particular group or all Protestants.

Thanks

Peter Theodore

minasoliman

Posts: 1757

Joined: May 22, 2003

Posted: May 02, 2007 - 07:48 AM

Someone on March 17th sent me this email

http://208.109.248.104/article.aspx?ArticleID=51564

And when I asked for a translation, this is what he gave me:

Quote:

Pope Shenouda: Reports about Bishop Bishoy-comments that t non Orthodox being unsaved are not logic
Wrote Ayman Hamza March 17, 2007 described Pope Shenouda III, Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of Saint Mark, what some people relate to a CD attributed to Bishop Bishoi as fabricated and untrue, and said it�s totally unreasonable describing it as rumors.

The CD attributed to bishop Bishoy accuses non-Orthodox Christian denominations doctrines as corrupt and that they are unsaved, and they will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
The Pope asked: How Bishop Bishoi meeting with other churches and telling them: You will not be saved?! , He pointed out that bishop Bishoy is representative of the church in theological meetings with other Churches.

He refused, in a meeting with members of the club -Cairo Lions- headed by Luka Bibawi yesterday that the first meetings of the Clerical Council be public , stressing that it was not appropriate to expose what is happening in the Clerical Council meetings to the public.

He emphasized that the church is careful about the reputation of the person who is being tried in the Council, and refuses to declare the guilt punished for it, alluding to the fact that the Church does not cut the salaries of fathers and excommunicated priests for the sake of their families. The Pope, the Church did not excommunicate George Bibawi, but he himself chose to separate, and since leaving in 1984, he joined the Russian Church

So it seems that HH is claiming some sort of misunderstanding or misrepresentation.

God bless.

Peter

Posts: 428

Joined: Mar 18, 2003
Location: Jersey City, NJ

Posted: May 02, 2007 - 03:08 PM

Just from a point of logic, the statement is aimed a certain denominations/sects, otherwise the church would never have entered in dialogues with the Anglican church, H.E. Metroploitan Bishoy being one the leads from the coptic delegation.

Just as an aside there are many protestant sects that barely resemble christianity anymore, with ministers saying that belief in the Resurrection is not critical, others out right deny the doctrine of the Trinity, et c., just look at the writings of J.S. Spong.

petertheodore

Posts: 343

Joined: Dec 02, 2003
Location: England

Posted: May 19, 2007 - 08:45 AM

I appreciate that, although the Anglican Church is one of the most liberal and there are certainly many Anglicans who are not Christian in any normal understanding of the word. Bishop Spong is in fact an Anglican.

I had heard that H.E. Bishoy had said that Roman Catholics and Protestants were without hope of salvation.

It is still not clear to me whether there is a CD where H.E. Bishoy is speaking about Roman Catholics and Protestants in such a way or not?

I can understand His Holiness saying it does not make sense, but he doesn't seem to say that the CD doesn't exist.

Peter

PaulS
Ask me for help!
Posts: 2441

Joined: Sep 09, 2002
Location: St. Abanoub and St. Antony Coptic Orthodox Church in Norco, CA

Posted: May 19, 2007 - 03:52 PM

Hello,

I have some reservations about the link posted above, because it does not even have a qualified domain name. Someone told me it is an Egyptian tabloid.

GBU,
ps

petertheodore

Posts: 343

Joined: Dec 02, 2003
Location: England

Posted: May 20, 2007 - 05:58 AM

Hi yes it goes to a news report but i have heard about it from other people and pope shenouda seems to be saying that he bishoy did say something on the topic but it seems hard to find out what exactly

Misteka

Posts: 194

Joined: Oct 05, 2005
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Posted: May 21, 2007 - 08:27 AM

Hey guys,

Met Bishoy is being sued right now for a million pounds after his derogatory comments against George Bibawy, according to Ahram Weekly.

The comments he made about Muslims, Protestants, and Catholics appeared in his "Grounding of Faith" DVD and CD series, and also in the two sermons on this site. (before it disappeared) I don't have the sources on me now, but numerous publications have picked up on this major issue right now in Egypt. Our patriarch has stood up and defended the Metropolitan, saying he has been misunderstood and we should not attack him.

These series are still being sold, although they may have been recalled and edited, and then redistributed after the recent fiasco.

Mina Demian.

carolb

Posts: 408

Joined: Mar 24, 2004
Location: Southern California

Posted: May 21, 2007 - 10:08 AM

If His Holiness Pope Shenouda has indicated that the comments were misunderstood or taken out of context, then we should be more inclined to believe that than any allegations in Ahram Weekly.

The question being asked and responded to, I am going to close this thread, as I see the course this thread might take. There is no point in entertaining allegations against our reverend clergy. Let us pray for the Lord's wisdom to guide our fathers.

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