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elshammaa
Posts: 260
Joined: Dec 09, 2004
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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 Posted:
May 08, 2007 - 10:38 PM |
 
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I am trying to prepare a talk on apparent bible contradictions... this topic is to follow up on our study on comparative theology, where the issue was brought up when people talk to us, how do we repond. I am having a hard time finding the orthodox view on this...
following the idea of the website: http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm. The website has me confused, as in some topics they claim the contradiction is a “copyist error”, do we believe this? for example, (see paragraph below….
I will also try to get the old articles from the St Anthony monastery magazine dealing with this topic. Do you know any other references or priests I can talk to about this? Any books? I know there are arabic ones, how about english ones? Any help with how to explain this and many others would be helpful!! Thank you all soo much in advance, especially after my long silence 
In Christ,
me
94. Did David (1 Samuel 17:23, 50) or Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19) kill Goliath?
(Category: copyist error)
The discrepancy as to who killed Goliath (David or Elhanan) was caused by copyist or scribal error, which can be seen clearly.
The text of 2 Samuel 21:19 reads as follows:
"In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod."
As this stands in the Hebrew Masoretic text, this is a certainly a clear contradiction to 1 Samuel and its account of David's slaying of Goliath. However, there is a very simple and apparent reason for this contradiction, as in the parallel passage of 1 Chronicles 20:5 shows. It describes the episode as follows:
"In another battle with the Philistines, Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod."
When the Hebrew for these sentences is examined, the reason for the contradiction becomes quite obvious and the latter 1 Chronicles is seen to be the true and correct reading. This is not simply because we know David killed Goliath, but also because of the language.
When the scribe was duplicating the earlier manuscript, it must have been blurred or damaged at this particular verse in 2 Samuel. The result was that he made two or three mistakes (see Gleason L. Archer, Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, page 179):
The sign of the direct object in 1 Chronicals was '-t which comes just before "Lahmi" in the sentence order. The scribe mistook it for b-t or b-y-t ("Beth") and thus got BJt hal-Lahmi ("the Bethlehemite") out of it.
He misread the word for "brother" ('-h , the h having a dot underneath it) as the sign of the direct object ('-t) right before g-l-y-t ("Goliath"). Therefore he made "Goliath" the object of "killed" instead of "brother" of Goliath, as in 1 Chronicles.
The copyist misplaced the word for "weavers" ('-r-g-ym) so as to put it right after "Elhanan" as his family name (ben Y-'-r-y'-r--g-ym, ben ya'arey 'ore-gim, "the son of the forest of weavers", a most improbable name for anyone's father). In Chronicles the ore-gim ("weavers") comes straight after men\r ("a beam of") - thus making perfectly good sense.
To conclude: the 2 Samuel passage is an entirely traceable error on the part of the copyist in the original wording, which has been preserved in 1 Chronicles 20:5. David killed Goliath.
This testifies to the honesty and openness of the scribes and translators (both Jewish and Christian). Although it would be easy to change this recognized error, this has not been done in favour of remaining true to the manuscripts. Although it leaves the passage open to shallow criticism as Shabbir Ally has shown, it is criticism which we are not afraid of. An excellent example of human copying error resulting from the degeneration of papyrus. |
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"What can be more blessed than to imitate on earth the chorus of the angels; to begin the opening day with prayer, honouring the Creator with hymns and songs; and when the sun is up to turn to work, always accompanied by prayer, and to season one's labours with singing? Cheerfulness and freedom from sorrow are the gifts which the soul received from the singing of hymns." --St. Basil the Great |
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geomekhaiel
Posts: 1707
Joined: Aug 05, 2003
Location: Saint George COC
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| Posted:
May 09, 2007 - 10:45 AM |
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| elshammaa wrote: |
I will also try to get the old articles from the St Anthony monastery magazine dealing with this topic. Do you know any other references or priests I can talk to about this? |
Try speaking to Fr. Marcus St. Antony. He writes the magazine, and is really really really cool. He is great help and is the most knowledgable person i know.
George Mekhaiel |
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George Mekhaiel |
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elshammaa
Posts: 260
Joined: Dec 09, 2004
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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| Posted:
May 10, 2007 - 03:01 PM |
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Thanks!~ I will definitely see if I can talk to him or at least get some of the back issues... anyone know where I can get teh back issues? or any other ideas~! Thanks again!
IC,
me |
_________________
"What can be more blessed than to imitate on earth the chorus of the angels; to begin the opening day with prayer, honouring the Creator with hymns and songs; and when the sun is up to turn to work, always accompanied by prayer, and to season one's labours with singing? Cheerfulness and freedom from sorrow are the gifts which the soul received from the singing of hymns." --St. Basil the Great |
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