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tonyhabibi
Posts: 1221
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
Location: IN THE back of your mind .navagating through your heart , resting in your soul .
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 Posted:
Dec 02, 2007 - 09:05 PM |
 
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I have been struggling with this a great deal
I go to homes , and people offer me NON FASTING foods ... and i decline , and they ask me why , and i tell them that i am fasting , and they say ok , and as hard as it is to admit it , i do get a tiny bit of pride in me , or rather a " holier than thou " in me . How do u deal with things like this ?
I remember last year , i attempted to fast for great lent , on my first day of fasting , i ended up telling nearly 4 people im fasting, and i actually called some of the same people to remind them , in order to bring to the dinner table fasting foods.
also , is eating fish allowed in this fast ?
if you guys could pray for me , that would be great , because i am FULL with sin . |
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geomekhaiel
Posts: 1726
Joined: Aug 05, 2003
Location: Saint George COC
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2007 - 11:27 PM |
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Tony,
Do you remember when Christ said, "Don't let you left hand know what your right hand is doing" ...? Think about it and you shall find your answer.
George Mekhaiel |
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mikokiko
Posts: 1021
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Dec 03, 2007 - 03:10 AM |
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PeterA
Posts: 117
Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Location: Mississauga, Canada
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2007 - 06:08 AM |
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Tony in my opinion, it is sometimes unavoidable. not telling people isnt what you should be working on then. Maybe we can focus our efforts on the pride itself. on eliminating it.
Put your sins before you to prevent pride, and we fast for that reason, to purge our desires and so that we can hunger for God instead of food.
If you go around the entire fast trying to hide that you're fasting, then thats all its going to be. Just a hide and seek sort of mentality with people when any big fast comes. that isnt how it should be. try to avoid telling people yes, but if your forced then so be it. If you get pride from that, then focus on eliminating pride itself. Cause you cant hide form people and you cant hide from pride so focus on that sin itself. |
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Overgrownegyptian
Ask me for help!
Posts: 245
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Location: St. Mary and St. George COC [tallahassee, fl] l St. George COC [tampa, fl]
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2007 - 08:14 AM |
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| tonyhabibi wrote: |
I have been struggling with this a great deal
I go to homes , and people offer me NON FASTING foods ... and i decline , and they ask me why , and i tell them that i am fasting , and they say ok , and as hard as it is to admit it , i do get a tiny bit of pride in me , or rather a " holier than thou " in me . How do u deal with things like this ?
also , is eating fish allowed in this fast ?
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Tony,
It is important to fight the thoughts of pride, especially from fasting, because these thoughts in essence will negate, will cancel out, any good that comes out of the fasting.
The way to fight these thoughts of prides is to try to practice humility. The grounds for thoughts of pride during fasting come because the devil wants the person to tell themself "hey you know what, i'm doing pretty well with this fasting thing. i started from the first day and every time someone offers me food and i say i cant cause i'm fasting I get more blessings."
The way to practice this humility is to remember that others have fasted more and better than we have. Look at how many days Jesus Christ fasted? How can we be proud in fasting from certain foods or become proud from fasting till a certain time? We definetly can't be proud for any "achievements" we do because they are absolutely nothing compared to what the Lord did himself or even the saints before us. I dont mean to say it to discourage, I mean it as a way to fight the thoughts of pride that come with fasting.
We can fast with fish during this fast, though on Wednesday and Friday we should abstain from fish but talk to your Father of Confession about it and ask him about this and also your thoughts of being proud and how to fight them better. After all, a father of confession isnt someone we should just go to and say I did this and this and this but rather he should be someone we should reveal our thoughts to so he can help us better understand our thoughts and help us in fighting certain thoughts.
God bless you Tony. |
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andrew
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing to you, pleasing to you.
"O God, my God, I will rise up early unto You; for my soul has thirsted for You: to make my flesh blossom for You, in a barren land and a trackless and dry place." (Psalm 62:1)
"My son, give me your heart, And let your eyes observe my ways." (Proverbs 23:26)
"Every meeting with Christ is a prayer of renewal. Every prayer is an experience of faith. Every experience of faith is eternal life." Abouna Matta El-Meskeen
Administrator of copticamerica.org. Ask me for help! |
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mgeorge
Posts: 329
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2007 - 04:21 AM |
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Dear PeterA,
Allow me to make a small modification to your quote
| Quote: |
| ... and we fast for that reason, to purge our desires and so that we can hunger for God instead of food. |
I would rather say:
That we hunger for God, that food seems of no value and we don't desire it.
I was struck to know that this is the true meaning of fasting. I have seen my brother not coming to eat at dinner time, just that he would make a phone call to his wife overseas. And this is how we should view fasting; you strive to be with God that He satisfies you hunger for anything in the world.
Dear Tony,
I know what you mean, and I don't have a cook book answer for you. but I do what to throw in a story for you to think about (I am not saying to act upon it, but at least think about it).
An elderly monk and his younger (and greener) disciple monk were riding back to the monastery (on donkey's on those days) from their trip to the world to sell their goods (And of course they were fasting). As they were on their way back, a lay person met them on they way and has nagged for them to eat with him in his place for few hours, so the elderly monk told his disciple "let's have a bite with the man". They finished their meal and blessed the man, and went their way. Few hours later after being wearied from the sun and the desert, they passed by a small oasis, so the disciple asked his teacher to excuse him as he get a drink, the elder monk told him "How come? We are fasting!!", The younger monk told him "yes, but we just broke our fast at that man's place, father". The elder monk smiled at him and said "That was a meal of Love, but we are still fasting"
May God guide all of us to the True meaning of Fasting and keep us all in his grip. |
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Pray for me,
Moheb
"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:13) AMEN.
"εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη" - ιησου χριστου |
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tonyhabibi
Posts: 1221
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
Location: IN THE back of your mind .navagating through your heart , resting in your soul .
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2007 - 06:43 AM |
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mgeorge , thanks for your insight on this complex topic . it was most helpful . and the example you gave with your brother really made sense , and i could really understand the moral you were trying to tell us . thanks man .
Overgrown eyptian . , dear andrew , thank you for takeing the time to respond to my weaknesses . and not only did you respond , but you offered your assistance, which is much appreciated , and remembered. i have read your post carefully , and will do my best to put it to good use. however what i need is prayers . And if i recieve even a rememberance of my name in your prayers , then that would simply be awesome. thanks brother. -
Dear Peter A , your response was simple . and i loved it . your response was practical , and i took heed to it . yet i still am struggling to FULLY Practice what you say . what i need is prayers.
Mikokiko , God bless you too .
Geomikhalil , i will later contemplate on the word of god that you have provded me with . though this verse is not new to me , i still have yet to really contemplate on it . if you have any insight that you would think would be benifical to me , please share man . thank you for your assistance . its appreciated , and remembered . may we grow in christ 2gether .
Tony . |
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tonyhabibi
Posts: 1221
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
Location: IN THE back of your mind .navagating through your heart , resting in your soul .
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2007 - 03:38 PM |
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another question ,
I have a chinese food resteraunt next to my school , and it has alot of good food that is fasting .... so i decide to eat there everyday . But since i am eating tasty good food , and getting full etc ... am i forgetting the point of fasting by filling up on tasty fasting foods ?
where do we draw the line ? what if i like FALAFEL/TA3MEYA and i eat it everyday , and i rather enjoy it ... will i be not fasting in the eyes of the lord ? |
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lowlyman
Posts: 241
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 05, 2007 - 06:54 AM |
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This cheer me up too and reminded me that the law of love always takes precedence for it is the end goal of faith.
| mgeorge wrote: |
Dear PeterA,
Allow me to make a small modification to your quote
| Quote: |
| ... and we fast for that reason, to purge our desires and so that we can hunger for God instead of food. |
I would rather say:
That we hunger for God, that food seems of no value and we don't desire it.
I was struck to know that this is the true meaning of fasting. I have seen my brother not coming to eat at dinner time, just that he would make a phone call to his wife overseas. And this is how we should view fasting; you strive to be with God that He satisfies you hunger for anything in the world.
Dear Tony,
I know what you mean, and I don't have a cook book answer for you. but I do what to throw in a story for you to think about (I am not saying to act upon it, but at least think about it).
An elderly monk and his younger (and greener) disciple monk were riding back to the monastery (on donkey's on those days) from their trip to the world to sell their goods (And of course they were fasting). As they were on their way back, a lay person met them on they way and has nagged for them to eat with him in his place for few hours, so the elderly monk told his disciple "let's have a bite with the man". They finished their meal and blessed the man, and went their way. Few hours later after being wearied from the sun and the desert, they passed by a small oasis, so the disciple asked his teacher to excuse him as he get a drink, the elder monk told him "How come? We are fasting!!", The younger monk told him "yes, but we just broke our fast at that man's place, father". The elder monk smiled at him and said "That was a meal of Love, but we are still fasting"
May God guide all of us to the True meaning of Fasting and keep us all in his grip. |
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Overgrownegyptian
Ask me for help!
Posts: 245
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Location: St. Mary and St. George COC [tallahassee, fl] l St. George COC [tampa, fl]
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| Posted:
Dec 05, 2007 - 07:55 AM |
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| tonyhabibi wrote: |
another question ,
I have a chinese food resteraunt next to my school , and it has alot of good food that is fasting .... so i decide to eat there everyday . But since i am eating tasty good food , and getting full etc ... am i forgetting the point of fasting by filling up on tasty fasting foods ?
where do we draw the line ? what if i like FALAFEL/TA3MEYA and i eat it everyday , and i rather enjoy it ... will i be not fasting in the eyes of the lord ? |
Tony,
It is important to fast with our senses as well. I mean it in the sense that the devil will tempt us with food through our senses, maybe seeing something on tv with wonderful food or smelling something nice as we drive by a steak house or whatever the case may be.
Dont forget what happened with Eve:
"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate." (Genesis 3:6)
One look with lust at the food became history.
Fr. Athanasius Iskander says, "To have a liking for gourmet food all the time and to have a disliking for humble food is not the way to spiritual perfection."
Luke 16:19 gives the perfect answer to your question, “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously everyday." The man died and went to hades while the poor man that only desired to eat the crumbs went to heaven.
The important point though is that the word everyday is emphasized (emphasized i mean in the bible, not that i put it in bold). We can see then that it's not a sin to eat delicious food every once in a while, like how we do when we have a feast (after Resurrection, Holy 50 days, or Nativity) or even when we have people over (Thanksgiving or even guests visiting) but eating these good tasting foods everyday will not benefit your spirituality, meaning it will not help your fasting..in essence, it will again, negate all the hard word you've done in your fasting.
I remember you talking about monasticism in a different thread. Look at the life of the monks. The early fathers, The Desert Fathers, would eat bread with salt and water but when they had a guest they would cook lentils (fool madamas lol) for them and have a feast for the sake of the guest.
Even the story of the Prodigal Son. When he returned the father ordered them to bring a fatted calf and to kill it so they could eat and be merry (Luke 15:23)
From Practical Spirituality, by Fr. Anthanasius Iskander he says, "St. Paul tells us, 'everywhere and in all things I am instructed to be both full and to be hungry, both to abound and suffer need.' (Phil 4:12) That means that I can enjoy a good meal but I can also endure hunger. I can eat delicious food sometimes but I can also eat humble food when I have to, for example during fasting. Train your taste buds to be content with whatever food there is."
SO a long reply that means its not wrong to eat the chinese food but eating it everyday (especially if you say its good tasting food) is not helping your fast, that it's actually as if you werent fasting.
Hope this helps, God be with you. |
_________________
andrew
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing to you, pleasing to you.
"O God, my God, I will rise up early unto You; for my soul has thirsted for You: to make my flesh blossom for You, in a barren land and a trackless and dry place." (Psalm 62:1)
"My son, give me your heart, And let your eyes observe my ways." (Proverbs 23:26)
"Every meeting with Christ is a prayer of renewal. Every prayer is an experience of faith. Every experience of faith is eternal life." Abouna Matta El-Meskeen
Administrator of copticamerica.org. Ask me for help! |
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Peter
Posts: 428
Joined: Mar 18, 2003
Location: Jersey City, NJ
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| Posted:
Dec 06, 2007 - 05:01 PM |
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| tonyhabibi wrote: |
another question ,
I have a chinese food resteraunt next to my school , and it has alot of good food that is fasting .... so i decide to eat there everyday . But since i am eating tasty good food , and getting full etc ... am i forgetting the point of fasting by filling up on tasty fasting foods ?
where do we draw the line ? what if i like FALAFEL/TA3MEYA and i eat it everyday , and i rather enjoy it ... will i be not fasting in the eyes of the lord ? |
Simple, just don't eat until full. There is story from the desert father where an elder was telling a story to his disciple, where 2 monks sat to eat one ate half a loaf of bread and rose satisfied, while the other ate 10 loaves and rose still hungry, that the one did not satisfyhis hungry recieved blessing despite eating more than the other.
Also I remember hearing in a sermon that the feeling of hunger should be our constant companion during the fast besides the spiritual benefits, it is an excercise to keep our less fortunate brethren in our minds always. |
_________________
“While the theologians are searching these abstruse
matters, many simple-souls will have slipped into the
Kingdom of God” - H.H. Pope Shenouda III
"If you wish to be a theologian then follow the commandments." - St. Gregory Nanzianus |
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HonoringGod
Posts: 42
Joined: Nov 17, 2003
Location: Southern Cal
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| Posted:
Dec 07, 2007 - 11:16 PM |
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Fasting is meant to help us control our bodies. Through the fast we learn how to resit the temptation of endulging in food. This can be likened to sin. If we are able to tell our bodies what food to eat and how much to eat then how much easier will it be to stop the body from sinning. Im not saying you will not sin if you are able to keep the fast, Im saying that the more we are able to resit the bodily needs, the more we will be able to resit sin as well.
As stated above, eat in moderation. I love fasting foods. I can eat six bean burritos from taco bell and still be hungry. I try to limit myself to at most two a day. It is hard right now because I dont feel full, but eventually I will be able to eat one and be full. Have you noticed that if you work out everyday for a week you wont feel a difference? It takes at least two months before you notice a small difference. But if you stop exerciseing then you lose your muscle faster then the time it took to get into shape. The same with the fast. If after the fast you go back to eating the same things before the fast, then the fast did nothing. The fast is supposed to help us learn how to limit how much we eat.
I hope this helps.
Your friend in Christ,
Tim |
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mourad
Posts: 306
Joined: Nov 13, 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2007 - 12:06 AM |
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Hiyas guys,
Thought I'd add a couple of coppers' worth while we're at it.
You know, when you think about it there really is no reason for us to be in proud of fasting. It's really like an injured athelete proud that he'es doing physio exercises to recover from a said injury; there's nothing to be proud of, the reason for the excersize is actually a lack in the athelete.
The same kinda goes for us. We fast with our stomachs, with our eyes, ears and all our senses because we who originally had our life in God no longer hunger for him, but for that food which leads to death.
If one thing fasting should remind us of, is how much we are in need of Our Lord's mercy. Only through a moderate and monitored ascesis can we open ourselves more and more that Love which is Our God.
I say a monitored practise because in truth, all fasting, prayer, and spiritual endeavours without a spiritual father's/mother's guidance is usually worthless in that it generally ends up causing us more harm and distancing from God than the desired opposite.
Basically, I would whole-heartedly recommend you see your spiritual father about this, as these thoughts reall do need recealing before serious harm is done.
do make mention of me in your prayers, as I am much in need of them,
blessed fast and feast of our Lord's Nativity to you all, and especially you Tony,
Mourad |
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exGreek
Posts: 1381
Joined: Oct 27, 2004
Location: Spring Lake, Michigan
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2007 - 07:29 PM |
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This is ridiculous. The whole point of Jesus' saying that one should not try to look like they are fasting is to counter religious pride. And yet the spirit in which I read most of this is precisely religious pride. "Hey, look at ME! I can fast without letting people know that I am fasting!" It's simply another form of that same religious pride. |
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mourad
Posts: 306
Joined: Nov 13, 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted:
Dec 09, 2007 - 05:44 PM |
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| exGreek wrote: |
| This is ridiculous. The whole point of Jesus' saying that one should not try to look like they are fasting is to counter religious pride. And yet the spirit in which I read most of this is precisely religious pride. "Hey, look at ME! I can fast without letting people know that I am fasting!" It's simply another form of that same religious pride. |
Or you can just can just go according to what exGreek just said if you can stomach it :p |
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exGreek
Posts: 1381
Joined: Oct 27, 2004
Location: Spring Lake, Michigan
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| Posted:
Dec 10, 2007 - 10:58 AM |
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Sorry that I came out a little too strongly. I'm convulsing. |
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