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Conte
Posts: 16
Joined: Jun 09, 2005
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 Posted:
May 26, 2008 - 10:24 AM |
 
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From the khoulagi:
وما يخص الشعب قد يقوله المرتلون فقط أى العرفان أو المعلمون. أو هم ومن يقول معهم من الشمامسة والكهنة الغير الخادمين ومن بقية الشعب.
Which is the translation? i do not understand the meaning of irfân and muallimun.
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Truth.Seeker
Posts: 432
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
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May 26, 2008 - 10:42 AM |
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Are you sure the "aye" after "faqat" is not an "owe?" "irfan" = whose who know. "muallimun" = the teachers. So, "As for the congregation, the singers can say it exclusively, or those who know it, or the teachers."
Correct me if I'm wrong anyone. I only argue logic, not facts  . |
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Conte
Posts: 16
Joined: Jun 09, 2005
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May 26, 2008 - 11:15 AM |
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It is really AYE. So, irfân and muallimun seem to be two kinds of singers. I do not know how understand and translate. |
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Truth.Seeker
Posts: 432
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
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May 26, 2008 - 11:19 AM |
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Could be an editorial error - "aye" doesn't make sense to me. |
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ophadeece
Posts: 122
Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Location: Newcastle, UK
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May 26, 2008 - 12:21 PM |
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Dear all,
Yes, "irfan" is a proper Arabic word, and is similar and gives more weight to the word "arefoon" - simply referring to those who know the hymns as I assume from the deacons. This seems to be a new Euchologion book, as in the older ones you don't tend to find this kind of explanation, as congregation responses are only designated for the "whole" congregation, but it seems to me that with today's trend with congregation in Egypt, diaspora, or any other country on earth not joining along in singing the hymns the newer Euchologion books try to clarify the situation.
God bless you all and pray for us a lot
PS: sing hymns and praises for God |
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Conte
Posts: 16
Joined: Jun 09, 2005
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May 27, 2008 - 03:44 PM |
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| ophadeece wrote: |
Dear all,
This seems to be a new Euchologion book |
No, is not new. It is 100 years old.
- كتاب الخولاجى المقدس أى كتاب الثلاثة القداسات التى للقديس باسيليوس والقديس اغريغوريوس والقديس كيرلس مع صلوات أخرى مقدسة , Cairo, ‘Ain-Schams, 1618 AM/1902 AD |
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ophadeece
Posts: 122
Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Location: Newcastle, UK
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May 28, 2008 - 10:22 AM |
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Dear Conte,
Thank you for your clarification. However, it is so sad for me to know this, as it seems to me that the problem we face in the church nowadays date back hundreds of years, and this reflects the evil one's success in forcing the Arabic language on Copts (especially Christians) in Egypt, letting them dislike the Coptic hymns and the language in general. I really thought it was a recent thing, but it seems that it occurred about a century or a couple of ago! So sad.
God bless you and pray for us a lot |
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