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atthoowi
Posts: 365
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
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May 27, 2008 - 02:50 PM |
 
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Interesting quote from Jean Francois Champollion in a letter to his brother while studying Coptic.
He wrote his brother in 1809: “I am totally immersed in Coptic, I want to know Egyptian as well as I know French, because my great work on the Egyptian papyrus [hieroglyphics] will be based on this language ... . My Coptic is moving along, and I find in it the greatest joy, because you have to think: to speak the language of my dear Amenhotep, Seth, Ramses, Thuthmos, is no small thing. ... As for Coptic, I do nothing else. I dream in Coptic. I do nothing but that, I dream only in Coptic, in Egyptian. ... I am so Coptic, that for fun, I translate into Coptic everything that comes into my head. I speak Coptic all alone to myself (since no one else can understand me). This is the real way for me to put my pure Egyptian into my head. ... In my view, Coptic is the most perfect, most rational language known.” |
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petermansour
Posts: 17
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Location: St. Mary's COC Baltimore, MD
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May 27, 2008 - 02:56 PM |
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Amen to that!
Thanks for sharing! |
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ophadeece
Posts: 122
Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Location: Newcastle, UK
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May 28, 2008 - 10:36 AM |
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Dear atthwooi,
I find that you put me in a great dilemma now, with what the other members on this forum might say. I think some would argue that Champollion didn't have any Christian interests to study Coptic for church reasons, and that was his own personal opinion and that is it. Others may say that his dear examples of Amenhotep, Seth, Ramses, etc are pagans, and they are not our forefathers anyway. A third group may just use your quotation of Champollion as a proof that studying Coptic has no relation to identity, as he was born French, died as French, and never expressed any desire of being a true Coptic.
You actually reminded me with that story that I think I told it a while ago (maybe on tasbeha.org); this one was told to us by Bshp Raphael, the general bishop in Cairo, himself: Bshp Raphael had a muslim friend, who was a lecturer in Egyptology, and as part of his studies he used to lecture the Coptic language - and once he came to Bshp Raphael asking to attend some kind of worship wholly in Coptic to get a picture of how the language was pronounced and treated in the Coptic Orthodox Church. As it was near to one of the great feasts (don't remember exactly, Nativity or Resurrection), Bshp Raphael told that guy that in the monastery they are used to starting around 3pm and the service lasts till after midnight; all of which is chanted in Coptic, starting off with midnight chants and merging onto the Liturgy. That guy agreed and went with Bshp Raphael, who obviously gave him a psalmody book to follow along. Goes without saying, Bshp Raphael went up in front of the altar, but kept checking on the man every now and then, the latter chose to stand by the church door at the back. At first that man was flipping through the pages, and knew where to find the text of the hymns being chanted, but halfway through he put the psalmody book down, closed his eyes, and stood still in his place - Bshp Raphael got surprised and went back to him asking if he was alright, and the man told him that he was perfectly alright, and that the reason why he put the book down is that he felt a strangely strong aroma about the Coptic hymns, that he wanted to concentrate on the music and what is being sung, rather than keep reading and missing out on this great feeling.
What can we say about this, now that many (I don't want to say most) of our youths in Egypt and the diaspora get bored easily of Coptic hymns, let alone any Coptic in the church. Maybe and just maybe because America is so vast, and many people do immigrate to it every year this quandary isn't experienced of the generations to come scrapping Coptic altogether, and swapping it for the language they learn in their environment. Europe is different to that, and this is what I fear being a resident in the UK. Hope we all pray that the Coptic language and our church doesn't lose its identity as being the "COPTIC Orthodox Church"
God bless you all and pray for us a lot |
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ophadeece
Posts: 122
Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Location: Newcastle, UK
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May 29, 2008 - 04:41 AM |
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Dear all,
Another nice thing to share - you know what? One of my Greek friends told me that the world is pioneering a move on Greece to change their alphabet into Latin letters, to match the rest of Europe's. Let's see how strong and bold they are in the face of the world then.
God bless you all and pray for us a lot |
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Truth.Seeker
Posts: 432
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
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May 31, 2008 - 06:30 AM |
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Just because the Forums are a bit non-eventful these days, I'm going to comment on this thread  .
Ophadeece - you are ABSOLUTELY right in your first paragraph. All of those show that the example given just helps the points I made in the other thread. What I don't like is that you write that first paragraph as something for you to get over or put aside. In other words, "I've concluded X; A, B, and C are against X, therefore, regardless of the merit of A, B, and C, they are to be ignored."
Well, the idea is to incorporate A, B, C and D, E, F and then figure out if X should have been concluded in the first place or not. At least that's what makes discussions make sense. If everyone is going to assume their conclusion then just focus on the points that help their conclusion, we might as well never point out disagreements, because we'll never get anywhere.
As for the Egyptologist, it's funny, because he was probably doing the REVERSE of what we're supposed to do. Even though he understood the words, he was probably "tuning them out" (excuse the pun) and just listening to the tune since he's Muslim. The "Coptic youths" you are speaking of want to actually understand what's being said since they're there to PRAY, not enjoy a nice tune.
The "COPTIC Orthodox Church" gets its name from being Egyptian, it'll never lose that identity simply because of our bloodline. Going back to my original point, whether it loses its "identity" or not (no matter how identity is defined with the exception of the definition in my last sentence) is not a theological question. We do not become less or more Christian because we use less or more Coptic. The only identity that matters is its Christian identity. |
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ophadeece
Posts: 122
Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Location: Newcastle, UK
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Jun 01, 2008 - 07:54 AM |
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Dear Truth.Seeker,
In fact, in my post, I didn't solely hint to Coptic language per se, but I also wanted to emphasise the importance of the spiritual aroma our midnight chants, and the Coptic liturgy have. I am sure you know this, maybe even better than I do, that the midnight chants being arranged in this way, with all of these psalms being chanted, the doxologies, the psalies, the theotokias, etc, helped not only teach the earlier illiterate monk about the faith, but also to preserve the Coptic faith through the ages. I don't want to get involved into a discussion of the theological value of the Coptic language, and praying in Coptic, because I can't understand many of the things being said, but I can just point out to the fact that the effect it has on people, let alone Coptic Christians who love to chant in Coptic as such, is far beyond verbal description. I really hope that our young generations learn it this way - trust me, and this is my personal experience; I never knew tasbeha, or attended it until I heard it one part of it (namely aripsalin) being chanted, and I got captivated, look around for Coptic lessons, and just did an amateur job of matching the Coptic words with Arabic words, and now I find that Arabic translation (and English, or any other language to follow) is so poor in comparison, and that is why I insist on the beauty of that language. I hope I am clear.
God bless you and pray for us a lot |
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petros04
Posts: 261
Joined: Jun 14, 2003
Location: Miami, FL
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Jun 02, 2008 - 08:23 PM |
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You know I used to be a coptic fanatic starting at age 16. Now I see myself transcribing every coptic hymn in the Coptic church into English. Why you may ask? It frustrates me when people keep saying they have to sing in Coptic because this is our heritage or our identity or whatever and you don't even understand what you're saying. Yes I may enjoy singing coptic when I'm doing tasbeha by myself but only because I understand a lot of it and can actually pray understanding the words I'm saying (because of personal interest) and there is no one around me. You know for example this friday we have asheya that will be prayed entirely in spanish by Anba Yousef from Bolivia. Last year we even did the whole entire liturgy in spanish (even including epi eprosevke stathete, the readings, and even ya kola asefof). I was so happy that anba Yousef did this because he showed coptic music is music and can be used with any language. When he first went to Bolivia there was only one egyptian guy there. Through his effort and the grace of God he converted 400 Bolivians, and they have a huge cathedral there now. Do you really think that he will pray in Coptic? Of course not, the whole liturgy is in Spanish. I beg all of you young deacons out there right now to take what you have learned from whatever source (whether it be the internet, one moualem or many moualemen) and add an open mind to it. Just because you learned in it Coptic doesn't mean it has to be sung in Coptic. It is the will of God that our church grows. If you don't think the hymn sounds right or good in English, then you are learning from the wrong sources. Find a talented deacon that knows music well regardless of language and learn from him. I commend the church of Atlanta that did an excellent job in transcribing the coptic hymns for the liturgy of the word onto the english. I hope this message reaches deacons around the world, and that the Coptic church flourishes rather than keep losing its youth. |
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atthoowi
Posts: 365
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
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Jun 03, 2008 - 10:47 AM |
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]sini `eouon niben
anok ]ouws ecaji `noukouji e;be pai`s;orter vai etafswpi qen rwou `nnyete `ncecwoun `n]acpi `nrem`n,ymi an.
N]ska] an epimacteacpi `nrem`n,ymi etsop `mpaima. Icje tenouws ehitc epiqir marenmou] eron je nior;odoxoc `norientalic ouoh `nten`stem mou] eron je ]ekklycia `nrem`n,ymi `nor;odoxoc. E;be ou paimoc] etsop qen rwn eouhwb etencwoun `mmoc an. Marenyetka] eroc caji e;bytc ouoh `ntoujoc je marenhitc ie marenareh eroc. `mpen;re nyetoi `natemi ouoh `natka] eroc ejw `n`hli `ncaji qa tenacpi. ]cwoun qen `pswk `mpahyt je nyetcwoun `mmoc `nnoujw `nnaicaji et`chouort eroc eneh. Ai`cqai `mpihouit `ncqai ca`pswi e;ritame pikahi tyrf ebol hiten paimannat je ouon `sjom `mmon `emei `mmoc. ]cwoun ouoh anok pe piswrp e;najoc je hw] pe an `mmon `ecwoun `ntaiacpi ;ai e;rennohem `nnen'u,y je `nne ouacpi swpi `nou[rop outon nem oute V}. anok `m`vry] etaicqai nwten icjen hy ]jw `mmoc nwten `nkecop je ne anok ourefmactetenacpi sa][icbw eroc. Qen pjin;riervai aicwoun je aijem ouaho `e`mpehlijemf icjen nau =e ie ^ `nsenrompi. Maretenswpi `nhanrefkw] `nca aho `n;wten hwten. `mpairy] `mmauatf eretenejem `mpiswst e;naouon `mpiouwth etafareh `pirw etcwk `mmon eqoun `epiry] `nka] `nte nenswrp `nio]. `n;wou au,w nan `eqryi `nounis] `n;woutc `nte pouemi nem poujinka] `enimuctyrion `nte `v] ouoh `c,y `mpen`m;o ebol. Hw] pe `ntenouwn `nnenbal e;rennau eroc. Ouon `sjom `mmon `e,w `n`h;yn `enyetaubolc ebol alla `nhouo maren ka] anon qen ouka]. Nirem`n,ymi `nor;odoxoc auswpi `nnyetrwqt `ntenacpi `epiqir ouoh anon ]nou answpi `nnyethwmi ejwc. Nisemmwou nyetaui I ebol qen nyetcabol `n,ymi aumei `mmoc ehoteron. `n;wou aunau je nasen`couenc emasw ouoh ec,y qen tenqorpc ouoh `n`tsebiw `namoni `mmoc ten,w `ntensentatci hijwc. Eswp aresan`hli ouows e`erouw nyi mareferouw qen tenacpi ie ereteneswpi euhi`pho `nnetencaji.
Oujai qen `p=o=c
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AMoussa01
Posts: 535
Joined: Jan 08, 2007
Location: St. George and St. Joseph in San Jose California
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Jun 03, 2008 - 02:53 PM |
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Someone teach me!!!
I have an idea...why dont those who are fluent in coptic (atthoowi or remnkemi) give us daily (or weekly) lessons? We can create a forum that helps teach people coptic. We can start with vocabulary and work our way up to grammar and making sentences. What you guys think?
GB
Tony |
_________________
Tony Moza,
HCOC Distant Member
+ To Protect and Preserve +
HCOC: Sing it! Live it! Love it! |
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mikehenry
Posts: 96
Joined: Jan 19, 2006
Location: St. Mary and St. Moses Coptic Orthodox Church, Buffalo, NY, USA
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Jun 03, 2008 - 02:58 PM |
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Hey everyone,
I agree 100% with Tony.
Thanks,
Mike
By the way, how did you guys learn Coptic? |
_________________
Mike
http://www.buffalocopts.org
"When I said, 'My foot is slipping,' Your love, O LORD, supported me. When anxiety was great within me, Your consolation brought joy to my soul."
Psalm 93:18-19
"My eyes are always toward the Lord, for He shall pluck my feet out of the trap."
Psalm 24: 15 |
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mikokiko
Posts: 1027
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Jun 03, 2008 - 03:57 PM |
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Truth.seeker, I would really like to know, from where do you get this idea that the only identity as Christians we should be concerned about in Church is what ever is blatantly "Christian:". Christianity is LIFE. It is a never ending sphere that reigns our lives from the dawn of infancy to the dusk of our lives. And as this is so clearly evident in the Scriptures, it should never keep us away from applying it to our cultural heritage. If our Christian "identity is all that matters, then why does St. Paul the Apostle spend so much of his epistles writing concerning the correct way the sexes should behave? Why does he seek to preserve the correct identity of womanhood and manhood? Are these not God-given? Just as our race is God-given? Just as we are Egyptians, is there even not a proper way to deal with our own national identity even in Church, as we deal with the sexes? (Men on the left, Woman on the right, women wear head coverings, women are given communion second), then why is our national identity irrelevant in our search for true spirituality?
Coptic IS God-given as we are Egyptians. And we should seek to retain what God has given us in our identity, as men and women should seek to behave according to their own identities. God the genius Maker of the Universe, also creates art for us, and this includes our very own language of Coptic. Let's preserve it and keep it and try to revive it as much as we can amongst us AS Egyptians (nobody is talking about those that do not share our identities but have joined the Oriental Orthodox Church).
I hope you are willing to consider.
God Bless |
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ophadeece
Posts: 122
Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Location: Newcastle, UK
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Jun 04, 2008 - 11:12 AM |
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Petroc pamenrit
My Dear Petros,
]mate je pihwb `nte Abba Iwcyf ounane pe
I Agree That The Job Of Anba Youssef Is A Good One
aplwc e;be qen tefekklyci`a `pouai `nrwmi `mmauatf `nrem`n<ymi pe
simply because in his church only one person is Egyptian
ouoh picwjp hanrem`nPoliui``a ne ouoh `n;of `mpefagkazin an
and the rest are Bolivians, and he doesn’t force them
`ntenjw ebol qen ouacpi `n;wou cecwoun an
to speak in a language they don’t know
alla anok pe ourwmi `nrem`n<ymi> `mmon pe `nremPritanni`a oude `nremArapi`a
but I am an Egyptian, not English, nor Arabic
ouoh ;ai te talac je ]naareh erof okovn eqovn payi qen `vouws `m`V]
and this is my language that I will preserve at least within my family God willing
`nqae ]ouws `n[nou niouon ou vyetcwoun `nacpi `nrem`n<ymi `ntofcoohe naicwrem
Finally, I would like those who know Coptic to correct my mistakes
oujai qen `P={=c
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Truth.Seeker
Posts: 432
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
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Jun 04, 2008 - 04:37 PM |
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We are to incorporate Christianity into our lives, we are not to incorporate our lives into Christianity. What is God-given? Coptic is God-given as much as Arabic is God-given. Are you ready to say that if the Arabs abandon Arabic, it will be sinful?
Language is as much acquired as religion is. Are you ready to say that if an Arab born in Saudi Arabia LEAVES his Islamic identity and embraces Christianity, it is for him a sin?
Our God-given identities are things we cannot change (at least without surgery). It is our sex, eye color, hair color, etc... Coptic is an ACQUIRED language just like any other language. If you want to say it's sinful to change one's sex because that is his/her God-given identity, I will not disagree with you.
The fact that you bring up that we are Egyptians in your last sentence is proof that what you're putting forth is inconsistent with Christianity, since Christianity is all about NOT breaking people into national identity.
My last post on this thread/topic (note in the other thread, I said "my last post on this topic," i.e. left myself some wiggle room to post on other matters within the thread). Here, I actually won't be posting anything else on this thread. |
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mikokiko
Posts: 1027
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Jun 04, 2008 - 08:28 PM |
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So our houses, our families, our gender, yes and our race, which we cannot change are not God-given? Look I am saying that we have to deal with all things in our life in a Christian way, there is nothing that is just simply irrelevant and there is nothing about it that we do that will matter, even race. There is a right and wrong thing to do about race, and there is a right and wrong thing to do about gender, there is a right and wrong thing to do about cultural heritage, and there is a right and wrong thing to do about everything in life, even politics. My opinion is that we do not ignore the fact that we are Egyptian, as we should not ignore any single detail in our lives, and deal with it the Christian way. What is the Christian thing to do about this thing Coptic that we have?
Is it important for us to use it yes or no? These are indeed questions that our religion must inspire to ask so that we do not do anything superfluous, especially not in our churches. Religion is not only about God and theology and all, its also about my studies, the way I spend my time, the way I treat my family, etc. If there is an important moral issue in the government we deal with it. If there is a linguistical crisis in the Church we deal with it. Is it morally plausible to keep our the tradition of the Church? Yes or no? And whatever we do about it will either be right or wrong, there is no point in saying that our decision about it will be neutral (it may not be as significant as other decisions we make in life), but no moral decision made in this life is completely neutral and irrelevant.
I never argued that Arabic is not God-given it as much a part of their heritage, as Coptic is ours. But remember something when we begin to ignore historical contingencies and things that have been passed on to us, and things that are said in Church, and begin to excuse this with, "Oh well, we all know Arabic, is that God-given too?" OF COURSE IT IS!! Everything but the decisions we make (whether in action or by thought), is God-given. It is out of our hands to control the contingencies of the past that have been laid to us in the present. It is the decisions that we make regarding them that God will judge us by, yes that includes everything in our lives.
Islamic identity is different. Why? Because it is belief, and for the reason that Islam is false, it's not true. Essentially, all that is false, is a non-entity, like a painting of Christianity, but covered all over in mud with heresies and the likes. But surely we cannot make the same argument with Arabic, and Coptic, can we?
How is it against Christianity that I bring up national differences? Did not even St. Paul do this in the first, when he declared Unity in Plurality? When he said: "...where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, male nor female, but Christ is all and in all." (Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11) Was he saying that these differences did not exist? Certainly not, he was stressing the fact that we are One Church of belief, of plural backgrounds. For even he tells how as a male I should respect my identity, and how a female should. And in another place he mentions how he becomes under law to win those under the law (uncircumcision), and those outside the law, as without law (uncircumcision).
Christianity does not blur our differences, to turn us into followers of a totalitarian regime, but members of Diverse Unity, that is essentially what Unity is, bringing together those who are different, not blurring their differences, but bringing those who are different together in the highest form of Unity, the unity of faith.
And this great Unity (Oriental Orthodox Church), the Church has adorned the languages and heritages of the several countries it has preached to, that they might express their spirituality through these tangible means.
Would it be wrong for someone to try and change his race (genetically)? Of course it would. But even that race comes along with an identity as it corresponds to a specific group of people, and what has been their traditions. Just the same as being male or female, there corresponds a correct identity to be followed.
That my friend is how we incorporate Christianity into our lives.
God Bless |
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Truth.Seeker
Posts: 432
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
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Jun 08, 2008 - 10:01 AM |
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"So our houses, our families, our gender, yes and our race, which we cannot change are not God-given?" How could you possibly gather I said that from my saying, "Our God-given identities are things we cannot change (at least without surgery)." I hope it is no wonder for people why I've said I won't post anything further. Amazing. |
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mikokiko
Posts: 1027
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Jun 09, 2008 - 03:59 AM |
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Since you've broken your word, allow me to reply: Your definition of that which is God-given is that which can only be surgically altered? I've said that the circumstances that we are born in and the environment which history offers us, is what is God-given, because it is out of our hands to control that. The things that our not God-given are the choices we make in life through the use of the faculty of free will. These determine our moral standing. And it is what we do with what God gave us that we prove to Him that we are true Christians.
I ask you to challenge that, and if you do not, to prove me then how we cannot therefore deduct that Coptic is God-given and that though we are born into a Church that has been using it for well over a thousand years, that we should all of a sudden get rid of it?
God Bless |
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Truth.Seeker
Posts: 432
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
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Jun 10, 2008 - 04:38 AM |
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I didn't say the only thing that is God-given is that which can be surgically altered. That statement was referring to one's sex. That which is God-given is that which you are born into - you are right. You are born 1) in the hospital where you are born, 2) from your mother, 3) you've got one father, 4) you've got one skin tone, 5) etc...
YOU ARE NOT BORN SPEAKING COPTIC.
Try proving that a person is born speaking Coptic. I wish you the best of luck. And since one is not born speaking Coptic, it's as much acquired as anything else. The only way I can keep my word in not posting is when I don't have what I write twisted around 180 degrees. |
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Truth.Seeker
Posts: 432
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
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Jun 10, 2008 - 04:45 AM |
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You cannot change historical facts (who your mom is), you can choose what to do in the future (learn Coptic or not). Simple as that. |
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mikokiko
Posts: 1027
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Jun 10, 2008 - 01:25 PM |
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Is it your choice what Church your parents belonged to before you were born, and the language that was predominantly used in this Church for well over a thousand of years? If so, these factors are indeed God-given. You are right, what we choose to do with our God-given contingencies, is where we disagree or agree.
So the languages that have reached this age, Coptic, Arabic, English, Swahili, Farsi, are in my reach? Or am I born into a group that belongs to a Church that has been using Coptic, as native Egyptians?
God Bless |
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Truth.Seeker
Posts: 432
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
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Jun 10, 2008 - 03:14 PM |
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"Is it your choice what [Muslim sect] your parents belonged to before you were born, and the language that was predominantly used in this [sect] for well over a thousand of years? If so, these factors are indeed God-given."
"So the languages that have reached this age, Coptic, Arabic, English, Swahili, Farsi, are in my reach? Or am I born into a group that belongs to a [Muslim sect] that has been using [Arabic], as native [Saudis]?"
EVERY thing you're saying about Coptic can be applied to any other language used by any religion. If Coptic is "special" because of the Coptic Church, then Coptic is not special, the Coptic Church is special.
Your argument defeats your argument. The fact that Coptic gets its importance from the Coptic Church means ANY language used by the Coptic Church becomes important. That stands, unless you are prepared to say that a Saudi Muslim who stops speaking Arabic is committing a sin.
What a royal waste of time. I am at fault for not keeping my word and not posting. Try to do as little twisting of this post as possible, that way, I won't feel compelled to post any further. Thank you. |
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mikokiko
Posts: 1027
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Jun 11, 2008 - 12:06 PM |
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Can we try to be a little respectful, or are you going to keep trying to shove your own statements down my throat? How about you try to calm down here, so we can conduct a reasonable discussion.
Yes, everything that is out of our hands is God-given (but not everything we inherit is true identity i.e. Islam), even Islam. If we are put into this situation, we are asked to respond to it. Is this my true identity as a truth-seeking human being? But with Coptic, there is nothing superior over it (in terms of what is right and wrong), then Arabic, or English.
The difference here is, that as a Copt it would be wrong for me to change my Church's language to that of another. If I belonged to the Syriac Orthodox Church, it would be wrong for me to change my Church's language to that of another. Same with the Ethiopian (Ge'ez), and all the other Churches that have embraced the identities of its worshipers.
But to say that since Coptic is special to us (Copts), therefore it is special to all people is nothing less than Coptic supremacy. I said Coptic is special to us, because we were born Coptic! It is part of our identity. Just as being born male gives me a certain and proper identity to follow, not that all humanity should follow this male identity (females). Do you see what I am saying? Or do you still think this is a "royal waste of time"?
I am not saying that it is a sin if I speak English. I am saying it is a sin to simply purposefully rid ourselves of the heritage that is now being used in our Church (passed down for two thousand years), simply because we do not understand it. The problem is a little bigger than that.
God Bless |
Last edited by mikokiko on Jun 11, 2008 - 10:40 PM; edited 2 times in total |
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Epideacon
Posts: 96
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
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Jun 11, 2008 - 06:06 PM |
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Here's a thinker .... Is Christianity part of culture or is culture part of Christianity? |
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mikokiko
Posts: 1027
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 11, 2008 - 08:23 PM |
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Culture is a part of Christianity. We use the arts and all forms of expression in our worship, with what we have to offer to the Trinity. Our language, our music, or rituals, and the entire body is involved in Orthodox Worship (the five senses).
Worship is inseparable from our cultural expressions.
God Bless |
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Epideacon
Posts: 96
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
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Jun 12, 2008 - 04:50 AM |
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Huh. I always thought of it the other way around as Christianity being part of culture. If Christianity is a religion, and religion is a subcategory of culture, then therefore Christianity should be part of culture. And thus our culture (everything else like language, art, music, lifestyle, etc. ) should not revolve around our Christianity but rather our Christianity should revolve around our culture. With that said, as Copts we use Coptic in our worship. If we were Russian, we would be using Russian language in our worship. In the same way, the people in Kenya who use drums and clapping in their church services are worshiping God according to their culture. |
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mikokiko
Posts: 1027
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Jun 12, 2008 - 11:38 AM |
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Exactly, they are using culture as a part of their religion. They are using it to glorify God and His Saints. Religion should never be put in a sub-category. Its like putting life into a sub-category. Life includes everything. Everything does not include life.
God Bless |
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